General Category > Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board
Sludge Hornet Modifications
SUBS17:
The F-14s vs SU27s incident took place in the 80s and was in an article in Janes Defence magazine. The F-14 vs Mig29 incident is mentioned in a book about Iranian F-14s from what I've heard it was just a dogfight practice that took place after the first Mig29 arrived in Iran. As for the Cobra it would probably be better suited combined with TVN.
Sludge:
Subs...
Well, I've tried to verify your listed incidents/activities and have come up with complete blanks, so I'll just let that go 'til you get some specific links that we can all read up on. However, I did find another forum that talks about dogfighting that correlates some of what I was discussing with my Eagle driver buddy AND how the F-15 and F-14s are close-in turning PIGs. Look at the "teufelhund1918" user posts. He seems legit. Also, the "displacedjim" user seems to be in-the-know as he talks about "a-pole" parameters correctly and has some good points about technology. I disagree with a few points about the AMRAAM being the best missile (unless he knows) and launch parameters, as the airforce will rarely (1 blue v multiple red) if ever, launch "off the rails". Also, how the AA-10C (R-27ER) or the -10E (R-27AE) has some very nice ranges/specs that make it comparable to AMRAAM-120C.
http://www.strategypage.com/militaryforums/9-66/page2.aspx
And this is in addition to the F-15 and their well known structural problems. After this, as an Eagle driver, would you have confidence pulling 7 or more Gs. Some dont.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/aging-aircraft-usaf-f-15-fleet-grounded-04149/
Later
Sludge
SUBS17:
F-15s have beaten Mig29s IRL on many occassions the only jet that has ever shot down an F-15 is another F-15.
BTW FYI
--- Quote ---The US Navy had been having a naval exercise in the northern Norwegian Sea. Su-27 started harrassing the P-3 Orions which normally patrolled that area. On the final day of the exercise the carrier sent two F-14D's to escort the P-3. The F-14's flew in very tight formation with the P-3, until Norwegian GCI warn them of approaching aircraft. When the Su-27's got close, the F-14D's broke formation and rode the tails of the Su-27's. There was a big party aboard the carrier that night with gun camera footage being shown.
--- End quote ---
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=32218&page=2
Theres a little more to this story from what I understand though the SU27s pilots were shocked as to how fast the F-14s got behind them. I admit the SU27 has alot of advantages over an F-14 but I think all this comes down to the experience of the pilots that were flying those F-14s. Regarding the Aim120 it depends on what version you are talking about when comparing it to other missiles when talking of the R27ER it is not comparable to an Aim120 because it is a Semi-active homing missile the AE is supposed to be an active radar homing missile up to 130km but limitations are with the radar and the ECM suite that the targeted aircraft might employ. Basically eventhough it might have a longer range than an Aim120 it will still be relying on the launch aircrafts radar or wingmans radar to burn through the ECM to get to the tgt or it might use HOJ but that can be countered with towed decoys. IMO an R77 is more colser to the Aim120 but even that missile has gone through its own modifications with the Aim120D having quite a good range.
Sludge:
Subs...
Yeah, the only reason they havent gotten shot down is 'cause they havent gotten tangled up with SU-27s. Easily a match for an F-15 with a good pilot. And now with the LIMs on sustained G's, no match at all. The F-15 would come apart at the longitudinal spars before winning a turning fight with an SU-27/30MKI/37. Dont buy into the hype that the Eagle is the world's best combat proven aircraft. The USAF can thank the Israelis for the bulk of the air-to-air kills against the great airforces of Syria for that and Hussein's pity-party of an "airforce" for the bulk of US Eagle kills. All hype.
--- Quote ---When the Su-27's got close, the F-14D's broke formation and rode the tails of the Su-27's. There was a big party aboard the carrier that night with gun camera footage being shown.
--- End quote ---
Still have trouble believing that story. I did a year on the USS GW as EW division officer and there were never any parties or anything else after a successful mission or whatnot.
--- Quote ---Theres a little more to this story from what I understand though the SU27s pilots were shocked as to how fast the F-14s got behind them.
--- End quote ---
Can you provide a legitimate reference about the SU-27s harrassing the P-3? You mentioned something about a Jane's story, but I cant find anything on Jane's anywhere even remotely close to what youre talking about. I need that to verify what youre saying and what actually happened. And how could our forces actually tell the Flanker pilots were "shocked"? Interviews? X-Ray vision to see thru their helmets and masks, as their eyes bulged out and jaws hanging in disbelief? What carrier battle group was it? What exercise? Again, can you provide a solid reference to back up the quote?
Now the real meat and potatoes question. Do you think, pilots being equal, an F-15 could take an SU-27 in a 1 v 1 merged dogfight? You already know my answer, but I want to hear yours.
Later
Sludge
SUBS17:
Well lets look at it this way the Janes magazine was before the internet in the 80s from where I read about it, as mentioned in the link it was also in another magazine so it was quite a long time ago(incident North Cape and Bear Island) and it won't be on the internet. Both the F-14 and the F-15 back then were different to what they are now both aircraft were newer and so the Glim etc doesn't apply if you compare both aircraft. So if you compare an F-15 from back then to an SU27 back then my answer is the F-15 would win because of the technological advantage that the F-15 had over the SU27 and also the pilots were better trainned and did alot more flying than the Soviet counter parts. Just to give you an idea of how those SU27s performed aircombat wise then look at the Eritrea vs Ethiopea war which was SU27s vs Mig29s and how they handled eventhough the missiles were export versions practically all radar guiding AAMs failed and most A/A kills were with IR missiles or guns. Now days SU27s are a different aircraft and the SU30MKI,35s, 37s etc are much closer to what western aircraft have as far as electronics etc. As for the legitamacy of that story it was during the cold war so it could have been propaganda for all we know as far as I'm concerned it is just a good story I read but I have no trouble in believeing it considering the F-14 pilots also did alot of trainning back in those days particularly with dogfighting.
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