General Category > Unofficial F/A-18 Acceleration Pack board
The Pitching Deck Saga
Afterburn93:
Now everyone finally understand the irony of neutrino "neutrinoing" everyone in the session, because, that is exactly what a neutrino is. :o
Sludge:
--- Quote ---To me it looks like the carrier moves too rapidly up and down. It is a large ship so it will move perhaps as much as it appears to move - but about at least half as slowly. That was my impression anyway. Do you get paid for those approaches? ;D
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---I agree, the deck is pitching waaay too fast.
--- End quote ---
Fellas, I dont think the deck is pitching too fast, I think the deck is pitching too high and low to land. If you look at this YouTube, the LSOs are standing around while the deck pitching seems too high, then as the jets are landing, look at the deck pitch off the forward end. Its alot less than before.
Here is an excerpt from a paper written about the safety/limitations for landing during carrier qualifications. Also notice, the "optimum" WoD is 25 kts, which would require a 3.5 Meatball and ICLS. As well as the max crosswind component being 7kts. So for all us "hardcore, night flyers" in the SF mission where we are out there in the dark and land in 8+ kts of crosswind, we are out of LIMs. But thats the real challenging part for FSX carrier operations, landing out of LIMs
http://www.tpub.com/content/aviation2/3740.9Dwch1&2&3&4/3740.9Dwch1&2&3&40021.htm
Overall, this project may be a moot point if someone doesnt figure out a way to get a working Meatball or Cats on a "pitching" carrier, but was just offering some observations.
Later
Sludge
SpazSinbad:
Good info find Sludge. Graphic from your URL link below. About the video of pitching deck. Movement can be exaggerated by the zoom lens of camera effect. Also position of camera in relation to the deck can change viewer perception. While (without knowing exact circumstances at the time) perhaps the worst movement seen is because the carrier is not at 'flying stations' and not at ideal recovery ship speed with WOD ideal for conditions and ship movement optimised for conditions. How fast a carrier moves into the swell (with type/length between swell) is important. The captain will know how to get the best (least movement) on the day.
So perhaps we see initially the ship side on to swell or moving into flight operation conditions. Then when at ideal recovery circumstances things look different. Whatever - looks challenging nevertheless. Big ocean swells can be deceptive. When the distance between swell is such that the ship moves a lot - then it will. At other times the ship will not move so much in similar but shorter time between swell sea states. Smaller carriers can move less in the same conditions that will cause a larger carrier to move a lot. It all depends I guess. ;D
This movement speed as seen briefly in the example FSX video is too fast to be credible was my point, but that is only my opinion. I guess the speed of movement is realistic for a small boat but not for a large carrier.
Sludge:
Spaz...
I dont think the rate of movement was out of whack. Maybe a touch fast, but I think the range of motion (+/- 30ft, visual estimation) for landing LIMs was too much. I mean Ive deployed on a carrier and 5ft of movement on a carrier is not that much. IRL, it would be a barricade/ditching situation if the deck was pitching that much and that was the pilot's final option. But again, thats IRL, not simming. In sim, we can pretty much do what we want, without crash detect enabled.
--- Quote ---How fast a carrier moves into the swell (with type/length between swell) is important. The captain will know how to get the best (least movement) on the day.
--- End quote ---
In trying to get close to real life, you have to realize the LIMs of FSX. There is no captain, and Im mostly talking about how we can make this the closest approximation to real life with what we have in FSX. Obviously, there is no LSO to talk to CATCC/AirBoss/Captain to set ship's course and speed and find out an actual sea state for realistic launch/trap evolutions. Nor is there a true sea state as we all know with the sorry "seas" we get in FSX. Yeah, they can look pretty with some add-on/mods, but in the end, they are simply eye-candy and not even close to being different states. All we have are sets of variables that we change in a program that dictate the simulated environment. Those are the things that Im referencing. Certainly in the weekend Multiplayer, our initial BRC is 277 mag, w/8 kts of headwind. Thats it, end of story. As a "simulated" AirBoss/Paddles, there's nobody I can talk to or change that "in game". Those are numbers IceCream put into the mission parameters and they are set in stone for that mission.
Anybody have any luck finding a fix/workaround for getting the Meatball or working Cats added to the pitching carrier? If not, I will research this when I get home, but loosely remember a forum thread on some other site, where I found this guy altered the CG and the contact points of a coast guard cutter and it was "bobbing" (pitching) thru the waves. Those guys problem was that it wouldnt maintain the "bobbing" action because the oscillations of that effect die down over time? Let me get back to you on this, if I can find that forum again.
Later
Sludge
SpazSinbad:
Yes it is difficult to discuss FSX and 'real life' and I will always acknowledge that FSX is a fun simulator and never going to be like the real world but in an effort to get the sim 'more like real life' these issues are worth discussing, and they are only opinions - mine anyway. The original 'pitching deck' video was very dark on my computer. Here it is 'topped and tailed' (acknowledgements always to original maker) but lightened (but close to original quality I hope) so that more detail can be seen. Landing visually on a pitching deck should be a banned. ;D
http://www.filefront.com/15858767/FSXpitchingDeckHiQdvdLightenedWMP.wmv (8.8Mbs)
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