The Pitching Deck Saga

[micro]

That is what the guys at FS Developer say: build it into the model for best results. So if anyone knows a good modeler swing them by this thread and lets start to bribe them.

[ESzczesniak]

ES...., probably you cannot see the GIF graphic (or the PDF zipped) from your hotel room connection. Anyway the table in the graphic says this:

WOD 35 knots - Basic (glideslope) Angle 4 degrees = Effective Glideslope 3.2 degrees
WOD 30 knots - Basic                        3.5 degrees =                              2.8 degrees
*Based on a 130 Knot approach speed

Thinking about variables in a carrier landing can be fun! The damn thing is moving away and to the right all the time (unless it is stopped).

I couldn't see the graphic...but I guess it just goes to show you there is some sense to the way this all works out, as I was close in my numbers.  Most noteably to do this to full accuracy you need to do area under the curve (i.e. integral calculus) and I love discussing this, but not enough to go back to calculus again

[SpazSinbad]

ES...., Log Tables? 

[Sludge]

As it seems the Accel and Javiers Carriers are setup with a 4.0 GS Meatball, here's a question...  how do we change the Meatball to 3.5 for both sets of Carriers?  Since that seems to be the most common setting according to the NAV AV pubs.  I for one would like to know HOW to change this value for myself, so I can tinker even more.  Thanks.

Later
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

What is wind over deck? This is relevant to glideslope angle. Changing WOD is another way to change the effective GS angle.

[ESzczesniak]

As it seems the Accel and Javiers Carriers are setup with a 4.0 GS Meatball, here's a question...  how do we change the Meatball to 3.5 for both sets of Carriers?  Since that seems to be the most common setting according to the NAV AV pubs.  I for one would like to know HOW to change this value for myself, so I can tinker even more.  Thanks.

Later
Sludge

Well, if the carrier is moving at a realistic speed, 4.0 degrees for the meatball is correct and equivelant to a glideslope of 3.2 degrees or less.  I don't know how to change it, but while it is set at 4.0 degrees this is not what you end up flying.  The easiest way to tinker with this is probably just by changing the wind of the deck.  35 kts gets you down to 2.8 degrees, 30 kts is around 3.2 degrees.

[Sludge]

ES...

I would like to get the 3.5 settings cause according to the LSO manual "a basic angle of 3.5 is commonly used", which translates to a relative GS of 2.8 at 30kts wind-over-the-deck, a/c speed of 130kts.  So the default carrier speeds ARE FASTER than most common in real life, is my guess.... which is why the default speeds work with the 4.0 GS Meatball and ICLS.

Anyway, if anybody has the knowledge on how to alter the carrier meatball GS basic angle, I would like to know.
Thanks
Sludge

[SpazSinbad]

If the deck is pitching then the LSO is likely to increase the glidepath angle to increase hook to ramp clearance etc.

[micro]

What is wind over deck? This is relevant to glideslope angle. Changing WOD is another way to change the effective GS angle.

You're partially right. WOD will only change the glideslope when the carrier is moving. This is because increased wind decreases the closure rate of the aircraft to the ship. Thus the carrier moves a greater distance in the time it takes to go from the start to the ramp. I was refering to the multiplayer mission where the carrier is stationary near SanFran. In that case you can have 100 kts of wind and it won't effect the the angle of the glideslope, only you rate of decent will change. That is why I'm so perplexed by the ILS / Meatball discrepancy.  

[neutrino]

You're partially right. WOD will only change the glideslope when the carrier is moving. This is because increased wind decreases the closure rate of the aircraft to the ship. Thus the carrier moves a greater distance in the time it takes to go from the start to the ramp. I was refering to the multiplayer mission where the carrier is stationary near SanFran. In that case you can have 100 kts of wind and it won't effect the the angle of the glideslope, only you rate of decent will change. That is why I'm so perplexed by the ILS / Meatball discrepancy.  

Micro, I checked inside the .bgl file that creates the ILS for the stationary carrier near SF. In the glideslope section, it says "pitch="4.00", which confirms that the basic glideslope angle for the FLOLS is 4.00 degrees.

[Sludge]

Fellas...

Since I read in Spaz's LSO NATOPS file that says the MOST COMMON basic angle used is 3.5, all I want is to find out how to alter it for MYSELF.  I think Micro has said and illustrated it best with his posts and I want to know if anyone knows how to change it for the Carriers themselves.  The 4.0 used in the new HUD and the default carrier meatball is only good for the 38+ WOD as per the above mentioned file.  I would like to run 30 kts WOD w/a Meatball and ICLS GS of 3.5, can anybody help me?  If not, just tell me so we can move on...

Thanks Neutrino.  Hopefully you know, or we can find someone that knows how to mod the carrier for a 3.5 GS on the Meatball.

Later
Sludge

[neutrino]

Sludge, currently I am not aware of any way to modify FLOLS glideslope angle, I am not even sure where does it come from (is it built into the model, is it a separate file etc), but I am looking into it because of the 'pitching deck' problem. So if I learn anything new, I'll post it here. I am sure Javier, or anyone else that has built a carrier knows the answer, but I don't want to bug them at the moment  

[Sludge]

Neutrino...

No worries.  Thanks for the help!  Youre always a real standup fella!

Later
Sludge

[Sludge]

OK, fellas...

Back from testing and evaluation.  Here are my results...
GlideSlope  *3.5 (observed Y/T x 2)   4.0 (my fsx landings)
Dist/RAlt    .7 TCN / 300'                .7 TCN / 380'
               .2 TCN / 120'                .2 TCN / 150'
* est. due to lower than 4.0 readings from my results

Also, real life at the 90/1.2 TCN and 450', ICLS comes up on-glideslope.  When flying FSX carrier patterns to approx the same specs, I am always below the glideslope at the 90.

IMO, this shows the carriers and ICLS are set to 4.0, and if anyone figures out how, would love to see 3.5 on both.

Later
Sludge

[neutrino]