Author Topic: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'  (Read 9800 times)

quentcor

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DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« on: November 16, 2018, 05:00:44 am »
I have a frustration at Johannesburg OR Tambo Intl airport where the GSX pushback is 'locked' on de-icing, even when the temperature is as high as 34*C. This doesn't make sense. I have tried to change this to a normal pushback without success.
How do I remove the de-icing version of pushback? Where is GSX reading the weather data? I'm using P3D v3.4 and Active Sky 16.
Your help in correcting this pushback anomaly will be much appreciated.

virtuali

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2018, 01:46:08 pm »
The problem doesn't have anything to do with GSX, and it has already been explained here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,19005.msg132398.html#msg132398

It's likely the metar string sent by Simconnect was malformed for some reason so, as explained in that thread, when this happens, we choose the most sensible solution which is suggesting to deice (since you can always decide NOT to do it), instead of preventing to deice.

This is of course the best solution, since it your airplane simulates icing problems, not offering the chance to deice might be dangerous, when the received metar was malformed during *actual* icing conditions.

Patrick1246

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2018, 06:54:53 am »
Umberto, would it be possible to include a function to force deice? I use Active Sky and the METAR was LSZH 210520Z VRB01KT 5000 BR OVC007 M00/M01 Q1010 NOSIG
GSX didn't asked for Deice.
With the great FSL and GSX integration it would be nice to force Deice.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 07:10:39 am by Patrick1246 »

virtuali

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2018, 05:31:29 pm »
Umberto, would it be possible to include a function to force deice?

See ? I knew this was going to happen, and it's the result of this late change to the code, to prevent users assuming GSX had a bug:

Quote
I ASSUMED this was the safest choice but, of course, if it's mistakenly identified as a GSX "bug", maybe it's best to change the code, and block deicing in case of a bad metar report.

The "fix" (which is a downgrade IMHO), is already online in the current Live Update so, you can try it now.

That's why I always said the previous version (allowing deicing when a malformed metar was received), was better...

Quote
I use Active Sky and the METAR was LSZH 210520Z VRB01KT 5000 BR OVC007 M00/M01 Q1010 NOSIG

That what you saw in the program, but it doesn't ensure the string received by GSX from Simconnect was exactly like that. If you had logging enabled, the Couatl.LOG should contain a line, indicating the metar string received from Simconnect, and the reason of the error.  You should check immediately after the session, because a new Couatl.LOG will be created again on the next start.

Patrick1246

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2018, 09:32:14 pm »
In my opinion it would be make more sense to request deice, like any other services, regardless of the pushback to avoid those issues.


virtuali

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 09:46:23 am »
In my opinion it would be make more sense to request deice, like any other services, regardless of the pushback to avoid those issues.

It's part of the pushback procedure, because it's affects it directly.

The solution we'll add to fix these issues with Simconnect, would probably be reading the temperature variable in addition to the metar string and, if they don't agree, trust the variable and ignore the metar.

Patrick1246

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 04:19:39 pm »
sounds good, maybe you can add a new feature for remote deice for all scenerys, so you can place the remote deice stands through GSX, and call for deice. Would add a lot of immersion. :)

sw34669

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2018, 03:27:39 pm »
Umberto,
Can you point us to the specific simconnect issue over on the LM forums or dev forums. I still cannot understand how other add-ons always get the correct outside temp but GSX doesnt. Either read the outside temp from where they (for example PMDG) get it or lets have a chat with the owners of simconnect about what the issue is.

virtuali

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2018, 10:46:45 am »
I still cannot understand how other add-ons always get the correct outside temp but GSX doesnt. Either read the outside temp from where they (for example PMDG) get it or lets have a chat with the owners of simconnect about what the issue is.

I think I already explained it so many times: there are TWO ways of getting the outside temperature:

- Reading JUST the variable, which won't give us the Dew point, since there's NO variable for it

OR

- Asking Simconnect for a Metar report, which will give us BOTH the Temperature AND the Dew point.

Other addons might just read the variable, and that's it but, of course, GSX trying to be as real as possible, use the Dew point to detect possible icing even when the temperature is slightly above 0 (but 7°C or less anyway), so it asks for a Metar report.

As I've said, so many times already, sometimes the Metar report either doesn't arrive, or it's an illegal string or, it simply doesn't match what the temperature outside. The Metar report requires providing with a time/date/timezone and, of course, GSX correctly sends the current local time/date/timezone which it also get from Simconnect so, it's *possible* this might be somewhat related to an issue with either the time/date or the timezone, which sometimes can be wrong as well, as very well known by the existence of several utilities that "fix" the timezone. It's likely that, when a 3rd party weather engine changes the weather, it might not be reported correct in time, so the Metar report we ask might be outdated.

So, in order to stop users from assuming this is a GSX "bug" (it clearly isn't), we'll do this for the next update:

TWO icing detection strategies will be used:

1) The realistic one, reading Metar data from Simconnect, which will allow us to use the Dew point

2) The simpler one, reading only the Ambient Temperature variable.

The Ambient Temperature variable will be read anyway and, the "realistic" strategy will be used ONLY when BOTH temperature readouts (the one from the Metar and the variable itself) agrees the temperature is 7°C or less. This will take into account both the Temperature and Dew point to detect possible icing.

If the standard temperature variable disagree with the temperature reported in the Metar OR if the Metar cannot be read for any reason (illegal string, not getting any report, etc.), the "simpler" strategy will be used instead, which will use only the temperature (the variable) to detect icing so, it would be basically allow deicing only when the temperature is below 0 OR when it's between 0 and 7°C if it's raining/snowing.

dreampilot

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2018, 09:22:51 am »
That's a very good idea Umberto! Looking forward to it. Impressive where we are heading with GSX after all those years.

Pirateinparadise

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2018, 10:37:54 pm »
Umberto, you have the patience of Job.  :)
The drinking rum on the beach kind. Not the software stealing kind.

quentcor

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2019, 10:00:24 am »
Gentlemen, the above is all very interesting and has much merit, but none of the comments solve my problem of how to remove a 'stuck' deicing pushback in GSX, even when temperatures and dewpoints are way above the magical 7*C.

Does anyone know where the 'stuck' deicing file is stored, so that I can delete it?  I have uninstalled AS16 and set the weather to fair weather inside P3D and still, GSX persists in doing a deicing pushback! I have uninstalled and reinstalled the airport software to clean out any possible corrupted files. No luck!

Can simconnect still be responsible for the 'bug', even when weather is set from the P3D menu without influence from AS16? Perhaps I must uninstall and reinstall GSX and GSX level 2 to see if this gets rid of the irritating issue.

It's weird to be doing a deicing pushback when the sun is blazing outside and dew points and temperatures are in the upper twenties and mid thirties, respectively.

When can we expect the update which will be designed to correct the deicing anomalies?
Regards, Quentin


virtuali

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2019, 10:23:54 am »
Gentlemen, the above is all very interesting and has much merit, but none of the comments solve my problem of how to remove a 'stuck' deicing pushback in GSX, even when temperatures and dewpoints are way above the magical 7*C.

I don't know what do you mean with "stuck".

The only issue this (which is not a GSX bug, as explained, is GSX not able to defend itself adequately from wrong/missing data coming from other weather apps) will cause, and the only issue the update will "fix", is that you won't see needless requests to do deicing anymore.  But to these requests, you could always reply NO, so deicing won't come.

So, it's basically just a cosmetic issue, there's nothing "stuck" and nothing will be fixed with the update so, if you have the pushback stuck, the reason might be entirely different, for example a problem with the scenery AFCAD, or GSX asking to do something specific to the airplane config (like removing wheel chocks) and you don't doing that, possibly because you don't see the request, either because you disabled the Information text in the sim, or you turned down the GSX Verbosity setting.

quentcor

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2019, 05:22:34 pm »
Umberto, I apologize for the frustration this topic is causing you, but I am equally frustrated trying to correct the matter. Perhaps I should not have used the word 'bug' when I opened the topic. GSX is fantastic software and it was never my intention to imply it had a bug. There is one or other corrupted data in my setup which is preventing GSX from working correctly at only one airport, namely, FAOR. At every other airport GSX works perfectly.

What I mean by 'stuck' is that the only menu GSX gives at this troublesome airport is the deicing options menu, despite temperatures and dew points being substantially higher than 7*C. As I said, I have uninstalled AS16 so it can no longer affect weather in the sim. I have set the weather menu in the sim to figures which cannot possibly require deicing. I have reinstalled the airport software and the afcad file. All of this has had no effect on GSX. The pushback menu only gives the deicing options and I don't know where GSX is getting the information which causes the deicing menu to come up every time.

It will be a massive task to uninstall and reinstall GSX and Level 2 and configure GSX at all the airports I fly to and there is no certainty that this would correct whatever is causing GSX to give only a deicing option pushback menu at FAOR. If there is no way to reset the GSX pushback menu at FAOR, then I will just have to live with what I have at this airport.
Regards, Quentin


maxam66

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Re: DE-ICING PUSHBACK 'BUG'
« Reply #14 on: March 11, 2019, 06:34:18 pm »
Hello Umberto,

Just wanted to clarify the above, you said that GSX receives its weather through SimConnect. You then went on to say that "GSX is not able to defend itself from other weather apps." Does that mean that GSX is also receiving METAR data from an addon like Active Sky then using that to determine temp/dew point?

Thank you.
Robert
HiFi Simtech